Autocam & CatholicVote file lawsuit against Dept. HHS to fight mandate

For all media inquiries, please contact Kristina Hernandez, 703-373-0632,  khernandez@crcpublicrelations.com or Peter Robbio, 703-683-5004 ext. 116, probbio@CRCPublicRelations.com.

Autocam Video – “In Good Conscience” :

What is the HHS Mandate?

When President Obama introduced the Patient Protection And Affordable Care Act (aka “Obamacare”) there was general confusion as to what implications it would have regarding abortions and tax dollars being spent on morally objectionable services. Yet, the situation became worse towards the end of 2011. That is when it became apparent that not only were abortion services going to be covered by the national health care plan, but that in fact all health insurance plans were going to be required to cover sterilization,  abortion-inducing drugs, and other morally objectionable services and medications due to the mandate by the Department of Health and Human Services.

The HHS mandate, as it has become known, was directed by Kathleen Sebelius, the Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services. It requires all businesses and organizations (except for a very limited number that are exempt via a very narrow exception) to cover these services. At that point, several organizations filed suit, separate and distinct from the major lawsuit that was upheld this summer by the Supreme Court.

Most employers and Catholic organizations realized that there was no choice but to oppose the mandate on constitutional grounds, as it was morally repugnant to their religious beliefs. Most Catholics believe it is morally unacceptable to comply with the law, and therefore it must be challenged, rather than comply with it.

Fighting Back Against the HHS Mandate:

John Kennedy, CEO of Autocam (Grand Rapids, MI), is one of the brave business owners fighting back against the HHS Mandate. As a Catholic, the things mandated to be covered within the health care plans that John provides his associates are contrary to John’s deeply held religious beliefs. So John, together with CatholicVote, is fighting back.

On Monday, October 8th, 2012, John Kennedy, through the CatholicVote.org Legal Defense Fund, filed suit against the Department of Health and Human Services, and its Secretary Kathleen Sebelius (a Catholic). The purpose of the suit is to compel the court to strike down the mandate as unconstitutional.

John has also filmed a web-video and television advertisement that informs others about this fight. The video is being circulated to national media, will be featured on the CatholicVote.org website, and will air on television on several stations around the country between now and the election. (See the video below.)

The Origins of the Lawsuit:

Autocam employs over 1500 people world wide, and 680 people in the United States and offers top of the line health insurance that includes no-cost preventative services. Because of the HHS Mandate, John is being forced to choose between violating his Catholic faith by providing the HHS required services in his health plan or dropping coverage from his employees. Neither option is acceptable to John, and that is why he is filing suit.

Autocam Corp. v. Sebelius Resources & Information:

How you can help:

The lawsuit against the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) will be expensive. We need your help to make sure that John, his associates, and millions of other people across the country aren’t forced by the government to choose between doing the right thing and violating their religious beliefs.

Help us today and do your part to protect religious freedom!

Press & Media Coverage:

This page is dedicated to Autocam’s lawsuit against the Department of Health and Human Services (Dept. HHS). The HHS Mandate went into effect on August 1st, 2012. The page will be updated as developments occur in the lawsuit, and as new information becomes available.

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Categories:Feature Health Care

104 thoughts on “Autocam & CatholicVote file lawsuit against Dept. HHS to fight mandate

  1. This is a down-right dirty act on Obama’s part

  2. smallbiz in MI says:

    If the president had kept his word, this would not be an issue

  3. hhps3 says:

    ” The affordable healthcare act does not limit anyone’s freedom of religion. ”
    I find this quoted statement to be a sad commentary on today’s out-of-touch electorate. I want to shake those that have forgotten their constitutional rights. Perhaps they did not study them or perhaps they have forgotten them?
    However, I am also excited at the prospect that the HHS Mandate has awakened a great sleeping giant, those Catholics and other Christians who believe in religious freedom. Just like the devious bombing of Pearl Harbor, Christians everywhere should immediately register to vote. In California online voter registration is quick and painless this week. Go to:
    http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_vr.htm
    Please vote on Tuesday, November 6th to let the world hear your voice.

    1. Please tell me how the affordable healthcare act prevents you from practicing your religion. It doesn’t.

      1. said she says:

        The HHS mandate covers abortion-inducing drugs, and – for many/most – includes a monthly abortion premium. Whether YOU believe that abortion is immoral or not is of no concern. But those of us who believe that abortion is immoral must not be forced by the gov’t to shell out that blood money. “We must obey God, rather than men.” – Acts 5:29

        1. It does not include an abortion premium.

        2. Catholic Mom says:

          The HHS mandate allows PATIENTS to CHOOSE what THEIR insurance plans cover. I thought the Bishops were interested in promoting personal freedoms, not limiting them. I’m beginning to think that they were insincere with their statements.

          1. Rich says:

            The mandate has nothing to do with choosing what your plan offers.
            All Contraceptive services are available to anyone who is insured without the person paying a co-pay. The services are not charged to the insurance plan, but are being paid by the insurance company.
            This is a reduction in medical use effort so that even insurance companies can save money by not providing with the more expensive abortion for those who would not be considering completing the pregnancy; Hopefully all prenatal care will also be Mandated, as this is one of the best known means of reducing the real number of abortions.

          2. abadilla says:

            “I thought the Bishops were interested in promoting personal freedoms, not limiting them. I’m beginning to think that they were insincere with their statements.” Stop your feign indignation against the bishops. The fact is, once a Catholic is willing to trash the Successors of the Apostles, there is not much than the rest of us can say to you.

      2. abadilla says:

        You’ve been told the truth several times in this forum but to no avail, because, ultimately, you don’t believe in the bishops, CV, Cardinal Dolan of New York and anyone but the trolls who would like to make our lives miserable with your dissent.

  4. Gary says:

    What a ridiculous stunt. Waste of our time and taxpayer money.

    1. Soros Troll Alert says:

      Begone Soros troll! Hey everyone, flag this guy’s post as inappropriate and it will go away.

      1. This is true. You are paying for the law to be defended from CatholicVote’s frivolous lawsuits.

        1. abadilla says:

          Unbelievable! It is clear whose side you are on!

          1. Rich says:

            and you as well.
            But you are not on the side or reasoned discussion nor the search for truth. You are having too much fun just telling people they are wrong to think.

          2. abadilla says:

            Rich,
            Of course I’m not being reasonable, but all the trolls trying to confuse the issue, including you, are poster boys for “reasoned discussions and search for truth,” even when some folks here go as far as calling our bishops liars.
            Precisely because God gave us a “reason” to think, we should use that reason at the service of truth, and not contradicting what the bishops have said all along, that the HHS Mandate is a danger to our religious freedom, period.
            “You are having too much fun just telling people they are wrong to think. ”
            Interesting the way you project on us what trolls are doing in this forum.

          3. Rich says:

            What is this fascination that people here have with labeling a person as a troll when they run out of anything worthwhile to say?
            To you legitimate conversing, then you need to use reasoning to either agree or disagree with the men who are Bishops, they do not have any magical knowledge when they put on the Mitre, but have to rely on experts as well. Their charge of violation (not danger) of religious freedom by the Mandate is not supported within the Bishops conference or by those who advise them. Yes, Dolan believes it, but he speaks only for his diocese, and if I were there I would challenge him with the many other good and faithful Catholics who already do. There is no statement that what the Bishops say about politics is anything other than their opinion, and not a point of doctrine, which still would require acceptance. You see, Our Church has a great way of keeping opinion from becoming doctrine when it is only opinion. There is, and never has been anything to say that one cannot dissent from the Bishops. Dissent is a perfectly good way of creating the policy that becomes doctrinal.
            Final point, when you say you are not being reasonable, by your definition, is to say that you are not thinking. Not good if your faith is important to you. But OK I guess if you just want to argue for arguments sake.

      2. Gary says:

        So…everyone who disagrees with your nonsense is a “Sorros” troll?! Alot of the country must be trolls! LOL

  5. Gerald says:

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or Prohibit the free exercise thereof…” This means, any law, any ruling from the bench, any mandate, that prohibits the free expression of religion, is unconstitutional ! The Supreme Court does Not have the authority to amend the Constitution; the President does Not have the authority to amend the Constitution; the Only Body of Government, authorized by the Constitution, to amend the Constitution, is Congress. Any ruling by the Supreme Court that violates the Constitution is un-lawful; and it is Proof that Congress needs to address the competency of those members who ruled to violate the constitution. It is Not the job of the Supreme Court to interpret the Constitution; the Supreme Court Justices have sworn or affirmed an Oath to uphold, protect, & defend the Constitution; it needs no interpretation. The Supreme Court is supposed to make sure that every case that comes before it, conforms to the Constitution; Not try to interpret the Constitution as it may pertain to a case. They are Not members of the Psychic Hotline, nor can they read the minds of men two hundred years dead ! They have failed to uphold their oathes, they have failed to uphold the Constitution, and they have failed to recognize these failures. Congress has the Duty, Responsibility, and the Authority to remove those justices who have failed to protect our Constitution.

    1. The mandate does not prevent anyone from exercising their religion. They are free to believe whatever they want. The Owners of Autocam are free to give money to anti-abortion groups, protest in front of abortion centers, and sing about the love of Jesus all day. What they can’t do, is tell their employees that they can’t add certain coverage to their health insurance.

      1. jsm says:

        Exercising your religion is a lot more than just believing certain things. It’s acting on those beliefs. That includes not directly providing things that are considered sinful.

        And yes, they can tell employees they can’t add certain medical coverage. I have a friend who is diabetic. She can’t force her employer to cover 100% of her health needs. My daughter has several health problems and I have paid a lot of money out-of-pocket because I can’t force my health insurance to cover any of it. There is no insurance that covers everything out there, and insurance still has deductibles as well.

        If we were free to demand 100% coverage of everything we wanted, health insurance costs would be way out of anybody’s budget.

        1. You are absolutely wrong. A business can’t say they won’t allow insulin to be covered under their insurance, but they will allow the nicotine patch to be covered. That’s insulting and discriminatory. are you a moron?

          1. abadilla says:

            “are you a moron?” I thought Rich thinks I’m the only one using insults here. Where are my insults? When have I called anyone a “moron” for disagreeing with me?

          2. KT1 says:

            LetPeepsVote is the former OneCold. He is a high school punk. Don’t feed the trolls.

          3. Regardless, it violates our right to properly exercise our religion. Exercising our religion is a way of life, not just going to church and thinking good thoughts, as you seem to think is the case.

          4. John Christensen says:

            Typical Democrat… Begins to throw insults.

      2. Soros Troll Alert says:

        The new comment system has a feature in the upper right hand corner of each box: “Flag as inappropriate” if enough people press it, the anti-American comments of Soros minions like this one will be hidden. Do your duty folks.

        1. I don’t even know who Soros is. Clearly you do. Maybe you are his minion.

          1. abadilla says:

            George Soros is the patron saint of all progressives and liberals. That’s why some presume you know who the man is.

      3. abadilla says:

        “The mandate does not prevent anyone from exercising their religion.” Of course it DOES! If I’m a Catholic employer and I’m forced by the HH mandate to provide abortion (murder) services to my employees, I am being prevented from exercising my religion, period!
        Do you think the 300 bishops sitting at the USCCB invented the threat of the HH mandate on Catholic institutions?

        1. You aren’t forced to provide anything to anyone though. If the employee wants the coverage, they contact the insurance company. The insurance company adds the coverage, and the insurance company is in charge of paying for it. How is this not clear? You don’t do anything. You don’t pay for anything!

          1. abadilla says:

            “If the employee wants the coverage, they contact the insurance company.” Why do you think we call it a “mandate?” The government “mandates” Catholic institutions to tell their insurances they must cover abortion and contraceptives. Is not “if” the employee wants it. The government has step in to tell the employer he must cover abortion and contraceptives whether they want it or not, whether the employee wants it or not. Before the HH Mandate, the employee knew better than to ask a Catholic institution that it should pay an insurance firm to destroy the unborn and pay for it. Now, that is possible. You asked me “How is this not clear?” and I ask you now, “Why is what the American bishops saying to all of us not clear to you?”
            Can’t you see that mandating a Catholic institution to pay for what the Church considers a grave sin, is not part of what any government should be telling any Church?
            Have you read the argument of the bishops, and if you have read it, how do you come out with such a different perspective?

          2. FreedomFighter says:

            No, the mandate tells the insurance companies that they have to offer the service if asked. It doesn’t require that the businesses do anything. It’s really disappointing that you are lying about this fact. Lying is a sin too.

          3. abadilla says:

            “No, the mandate tells the insurance companies that they have to offer the service if asked.” “If asked” are the key words here, but if someone asks and the employer, on the grounds that his catholicity is compromised, does not want to pay for that particular service, the government then fines the employer with a heavy penalty. If the govenment were to respect the “conscience” clause we had in place for a long time, we would not be having this discussion.
            “It’s really disappointing that you are lying about this fact. Lying is a sin too.” If I’m lying, so are the bishops but you already made that clear. It isn’t that you have a different understanding of what the bishops have publically stated, but it must be they and me are lying, right? What is a lie? Knowingly knowing what the truth is and stating the opposite. Are you sure you want to accuse the bishops and me of “purposely” doing that?
            President Obama was soundly defeated in his debate with Romney, and instead of saying to Romney, “You are lying,” he didn’t, and now that the debate is over, he goes all over the U.S. saying Romney lied.
            Accusing somebody of purposely withholding the truth is a serious accusation but apparently you don’t see how serious it is, and, by the way, it is also a sin.

          4. Rich says:

            You are quite wrong.
            The person goes to the doctor for health care, and the employer will never know what the person does. The insurance companies will pay the bills without a listing of who does what, because it has long been known that this employee earned service is not the employers business.
            The most common use will be for the prescription for Birth control pills. With very few even considering tubal ligation or vasectomies (i.e. Sterilization procedures) Morning after pills will be covered, too. They are not abortion inducing anything. The inability of the zygote to adhere to the uterus is a natural result in a least of half of the fertilizations naturally, with the fertilized ovum being discharged with most women not even aware of what is going own. Creating the unwelcoming uterus through medication is exactly what Mo Rep Akins thought occurred naturally when a woman is raped, this disallows any zygote from attaching and becoming a fetus. Since the primary action of the medication is to stop the egg from being receptive to the (in this case, rapist) sperm that can remain viable for the first few days, this is contraception through any understanding. If the egg has already been fertilized and the zygote attaches to the uterus, nothing happens and the fetal development can and will continue until birth.
            You can choose to be for or against an issue, but at least be informed on it before you make accusations against those that oppose your views.
            The mandate mandates that the insurance companies offer the service to all that request the service, but the doctor must prescribe in light of all current laws. The employer has been released from all concern, and HHS has delayed implementation for religious groups and invited dialogue for resolution, as is normal course for may governmental mandates.
            The implementation occurred without any catastrophic events. Many women getting birth control from an insurance plan already providing it continued only with the co-pay gone, even from the many Catholic owned companies that were already providing it.

          5. KT1 says:

            Another TROLL. You need to go away Rich, because we are onto you.

          6. Rich says:

            You really need to stop this silly troll business. It is a game you are playing by yourself and has not benefit for anyone reading it. If you do not have anything to say, then just leave it that way. But the troll stuff is just old and needs to go.

          7. Becky says:

            Rich, I clicked on your name and lots of hate-filled anti-Catholic postings came up. You really are a TROLL!

          8. Rich says:

            LOL – I hope you third graders are having fun with you silly game. If you want to feel “more”Catholic by bashing others, go ahead. It just makes you look stupid to have this “troll” game. Maybe it is time, as St Paul tells us to give up what you did as a child, and accept the mature responsibility of your faith.

          9. abadilla says:

            “You are quite wrong.” And so are the bishops of the United States, Mr. Kennedy, his lawyers, CV and Cardinal Dolan of New York, but I tell you what, you continue to support the talking points of this administration and throwing Holy Mother Church under the bus in a Catholic forum, and I will continue to support our bishops since I don’t believe they are liars.

          10. Rich says:

            The church is not under any bus, and is not being thrown anywhere.
            You are not supporting the Bishops, you are focusing on your own and wrong interpretation and confusing the Mandates. Mr. Kennedy is no expert, and his lawyers are paid to pursue his cause whether right or wrong, CV thrives on misinformation to excite people like you to do their real dirty work. The Bishops are playing a political game that was lost decades ago, and not all the Bishops are in sync with Dolan. His is in his own empire, and it will soon be verifies that the emperor has no clothes. You will probably chose to tell the naked Bishop that you like his full regalia. But you are more invested in being a follower of the CV interpretation of the Bishops (mind you that the Bishops do not endorse this website.) instead of trying to be Catholic on the issues. If you trusted that God created you with the ability to think and use right Judgement which was confirmed upon you when you were sealed with the Holy Spirit, then you would not have to rely on the political message from a bunch of old men that are not doing so well in fulfilling their duties. They seem to lack the faith necessary to be real leaders, simply relying instead on how to keep the people scared.

          11. KT1 says:

            Posting under this name, too, huh OneCold? We know you are a TROLL.

          12. abadilla says:

            “If the employee wants the coverage, they contact the insurance company.” Why do you think we call it a “mandate?” I call it a mandate because that is what it is and that is what the bishops call it.
            Also, if the employer wants coverage for an abortion or for contraceptives, both she can get outside of her work of employment, she can force the issue, especially if she is Sandra Fluxe. If the employer says “no,” the employee can then ask the government to penalized the Catholic institution for its refusal to pay for the insurance to pay for an abortion and contraceptives, both grave sins in the eyes of the Church.
            Today I heard a lecture by Dr. Janet Smith and she referred to the HHS Mandate. Gee, I wonder why she calls it a “mandate?”

          13. KT1 says:

            Were you home from school on Columbus Day, troll? Get back into mommy’s basement and do your homework and actually try to learn something. Maybe then you can grow up and get a job and pay taxes like the rest of us.

          14. abadilla says:

            Why are you calling me a troll when trolls go into websites to cause confusion and I do the opposite and even use my own name?

          15. KT1 says:

            Sorry abadilla! I meant that comment for LetPeepsVote who is the former OneCold. I must have hit the wrong repy- I apologize. I love all your comments. You are a true warrior for Christ! Keep up the good work. I wish you could reply to my local newspaper that did a hatchet job on the Catholic Church this weekend because the Bishop issued guidelines for proper Catholic conscience in the election. They were outraged that some Catholics would perceive the advice as an endorsement for Romney and asked their disaffected former Catholic viewers to respond- lots of vitriol.

          16. abadilla says:

            Thank you for responding.
            I no longer feed the trolls, for now I know they are not here at CV to seek clarification but to attack the Church, her leaders, Thomas, or anyone who dares to write an article.
            Here in the Los Angeles area we have plenty of anti-Catholics writing letters to the Los Angeles Times dumping on the Church.
            The trolls despise Thomas and CV but they keep coming for more everyday and I can’t afford to deal with them because dissenters truly make me ill.
            I read everything and then a write a general post that establishes I know what the trolls are saying and if the shoe fits, well, they can wear it.

          17. KT1 says:

            Blah, blah, blah, you say the same lies over and over. Tell the Democrat Underground that their talking points are not working OneCold.

          18. life5678 says:

            Wow, you are clueless. Are you 12 years old or what? You have no idea how the world works. Why don’t you leave this conversation to the adults.

      4. KT1 says:

        I see you changed your name from OneCold!!! ALERT- this TROLL is the former OneCold, he is a FAKE and a PHONY. The regular’s at this site knew that anyway.

      5. KT1 says:

        I see you changed your name from OneCold!!! ALERT- this TROLL is the former OneCold, he is a FAKE and a PHONY.

  6. Money wasters p says:

    Another lawsuit? You’d think you would give up after the first one was thrown out.

    1. Joe M says:

      Americans risked their lives to have religious freedom. You shouldn’t be surprised to find that they’re not willing to give it up because Kathleen Sebelius says so.

      1. The affordable healthcare act does not limit anyone’s freedom of religion. In fact, the “mandate” requires that a company does absolutely nothing. If an employee wants the additional coverage, they contact the insurance company, and the insurance company pays for it. The business isn’t even involved. This is all a political stunt and these claims of persecution ring empty and hollow.

        1. JSM says:

          Not true. The affordable healthcare act requires employers to provide something they consider sinful. Even when the insurance company pays for it, it is still provided by the employee. Having said that, many religious organizations are self-insured, meaning they ARE the insurance company.

          1. No it does not. The employer doesn’t provide anything. The insurance company pays for the coverage and manages it.

            PS. The company that is suing the government is not self insured, so your argument is pointless, and untrue. Besides, even if they were self insured, the solution is obvious – buy insurance from someone else.

          2. abadilla says:

            “No it does not. The employer doesn’t provide anything. The insurance company pays for the coverage and manages it.” Excuse me, the employer doesn’t “directly” provide anything but he pays for the insurance to murder the unborn, but, of course, the employer is not committing sin, right?

          3. Rich says:

            Murder is not covered in any insurance plan, and the employer does not pay for insurance, the corporation pays part and the worker pays a share.

        2. abadilla says:

          Come on, say it, “the bishops are all lying!” because “affordable healthcare act does not limit anyone’s freedom of religion.”

          1. Yes, the Bishops are indeed being dishonest if they are claiming that the mandate intrudes on anyone’s religious freedoms.

          2. abadilla says:

            And when the Pope spoke in Rome about the dangers to religious freedom, was he also being “dishonest?”

          3. Rich says:

            His concern for Religious Freedom (not a Catholic Position before Vac II) is about the Coptics that are dying in Eygypt and Iraq, the inability to appoint bishops in China, the places where people ACTUALLY die for practicing their religion, not the economic problems they may assume for paying for medical care.

          4. abadilla says:

            Those were some of his concerns but he also spoke to the American bishops about what we face in this country, but I guess, you were not listening. Whose side of this issue, religious freedom, the Pope is on, the side of the American bishops or your side, the side that states “ObamaCare is not the Bishops fight?”

          5. Rich says:

            I don’t believe the pope is taking any side in this petty argument. He has better things to deal with including finding a butler who will not share his secrets. Besides when he has Catholics under real attack elsewhere in the world, I can’t see him consuming much of his dying days on whether Dolan has 20% or 40% of the Bishops, Catholics, or contestants on Dancing with the Stars behind him.
            Not a big Papal concern. Now he may be paying more attention to the US Budget to see if the Ryan plan cuts funding to many of the Catholics institutions that rely on Federal Money. This is both a Catholic prestige issue, and an issue about taking care of the needy.

          6. Rich says:

            This is about the HHS Mandate and not the Affordable Healthcare Act. You are confusing the “Mandates.”
            There is much about Obama care that come from the Bishops Health Care Policy. The Bishops have been pushing for Health Care that Blessed JP II called a human right. ObamaCare is not the Bishops fight.

        3. Joe M says:

          Let Peeps Vote. If the company stops paying premiums for their healthcare provider, does Obamacare require that the provider continue to offer contraceptives?

          I didn’t think so. Your argument that companies being required to pay for policies that include contraceptive coverage is absurd. The insurance relationship only exists because the employer pays for it. Whatever coverage they are required to offer is a product of the employers payments.

          What you’re trying to float is like saying that a father doesn’t provide food for his family, the grocery store does.

          1. Rich says:

            So does the employer pay for the food?
            The father is the insured and the grocer is the doctor/pharmacy.
            The mandate is to allow any woman to have access to birth control which will shrink the number of abortions. To fight the Mandate is actually Anti-Life, but pro-political.

        4. John Christensen says:

          Um…. And who pays the increased premiums for the coverage? Do you think the Insurance Companies will cover the drugs “out of the kindness of their hearts”? You must be a Democrat… http://thegoodreligion.blogspot.com/2012/04/can-you-be-catholic-and-support-barack.html

      2. Rich says:

        No one is risking their life for religious freedom, just their reputation for telling the truth.
        The ability to fight the issue in court PROVES religious freedom, not denies it. You are free to challenge an issue in court that you believe violates your religion because of the freedoms. And HHS has an ongoing dialogue about the issue to resolve the concerns – also because of religious freedom. However the election issue here is not about religion at all but good old simple political manipulation.
        “If Obama is reelected, Apple Pie will be banned, and all Grandmother’s who bake it will be jailed without their rosaries.” (Romney will keep the pie, but will eat up 47% of it before sharing it with Paul Ryan.)

      3. abadilla says:

        Joe M.
        These folks are no different than Kathleen Sebelius, Biden, Kerry, Barbara Boxer, Pelosi, today’s members of the Kennedy clan, and Judas, who support abortion or the murder of the unborn and then have the audacity to present themselves as good Catholics to the whole nation. If these folks were participating here on CV, their opinions would be no diffrent than the trolls that parade here day in and day out here.
        Joe, I for my part will not bother anymore to waste my time with these trolls. I will only make one clarification and then I will ignore them, because, as someone put it, we are feeding the trolls everytime we engage them in any conversation.
        Name the issue the Church or CV stands for, and these trolls are ready to take the opposite view. What does that tell you? And then, when we refuse to play doormats and take their abuse, they accuse us of lack of charity. Amazing!

    2. Soros Troll Alert says:

      I pray for the day that the mods will ban all Soros trolls permanently from this site. Until they do, flag their posts as inappropriate and they will be hidden.

      1. Patrick says:

        STA: SOPI IT!! You should not encourage readers to fear counterarguments and you should not work to silence those who disagree with you. Reading opposing arguments helps us all understand every angle of the issue. If we all agreed, there would be no need for this discussion. Let it happen, and feel free to share facts and analysis.

        1. Patrick says:

          Typo: Meant to say: STOP IT! (Sorry, I get so angry seeing your fear. It is an unAmerican quality).

          1. Joe M says:

            Do you have trouble understanding why it makes people angry that George Soros astro-turfs discontent?

            The man is a devout pro-abortion atheist. Yet he funds groups disguised as devout Catholics in order to mislead people. You don’t think there is any basis for people to question that? You don’t think there is something questionable about paying people to comment on web-sites as if they were doing it on their own time?

          2. abadilla says:

            Patrick, but I suppose it is American to come into a forum as a troll and hurl insults at Catholics because of the simple crime that we believe our bishops, believe that religious freedom is not being respected by this administration and believe we have an HH Mandate hanging over our heads?

    3. abadilla says:

      Yes, lawsuits will go away when we Catholics play dead and become doormats!

      1. Rich says:

        If those are your only two options for your faith expression, then you may need a retreat.
        One does not have to follow every stupid thing that is done by the bishops or even the pope. You may want to read up on Catherine’s letters (available on Kindle for free – Now that is Religious FREEdom.)

        1. abadilla says:

          “One does not have to follow every stupid thing that is done by the bishops or even the pope.” Spoken as a true loyal Catholic! Wow, this gives you tons of credibility with CV readers! Perhaps you should be working for the “National Catholic Reporter” or better yet, “Commonweal magazine.”

          1. Rich says:

            I don’t know why anyone would seek credibility with CV readers, as the site lacks any credibility. Both NCR and Comonweal are nationally respected publications with high readership and award winning and academically trained writers and contributors. This is merely a website for misinformation, that some people are winning to be manipulated by into believing it is true. It is not Catholic to assume that everything you hear from any bishop is truth, as their are and always remain mortals with the ability for good and bad the same as you and I. As Catholics, we do not believe in magical thought processes through Ordination. Bishops conferences across the world have internal struggles as they face issues and sometimes error as the collective. Their teaching authority is contingent on listening to theologians collectively, and on the acceptance by the faithful. We are not expected to be non-thing yes men and women, but full and equal sons and daughters of Christ.

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