Just a Reminder: No One Here Is Executed for Apostasy

American flag wavingRhetoric gets pretty heated here in the States every now and then. One side accuses the other side of betraying America’s founding principles and being brainwashed by religious beliefs, and the other side accuses the first side of the same.

But we’re not at the point where a civil court is sentencing someone to death for apostasy.

Like Iran.

So while the country is headed for a fiscal disaster, we disagree bitterly over abortion and marriage, and we face the unimaginable specter of a fall without NFL football, let’s all (that means you folks who disagree bitterly with me on the aforementioned issues) take a deep breath and recognize that we still live in an amazing country that, though it has warts and black marks on its history, has been and remains the model of personal liberty and the greatest guarantor of individual empowerment the world has ever known.

Unless you think instant replay has any place in baseball. In that case: burn, heretic.

But in seriousness, remember that in other places some people face serious persecution, imprisonment, and even death, for proclaiming the Faith. We need to pray for those who face persecution, do what we can to encourage the spread of religious liberty (or “tolerance,” if that word means more to you). After all: the 20th century was bloodier for followers of Christ than the 19 preceding centuries, and there is no reason to believe the 21st century will see that trend slow.

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52 thoughts on “Just a Reminder: No One Here Is Executed for Apostasy

  1. blackberry says:

    This is a wonderful article. I love it, and thank you for posting it.

  2. Simonlee says:

    All this Iranian has to do to keep from being killed is to say he’s a muslim. Sounds like your “All gays have to do to have equal rights is to pretend to be straight.” Maybe you should start giving your posts a hypocrisy smell test. This one sure does stink.

    1. Tom Crowe says:

      Um, Simonlee…. that’s a remarkable attempt to squeeze a bowling ball into a sandwich bag. With predictable results. Cheers.

  3. petersen says:

    I read this post in amazement. These very pages advocate that gay and lesbian Americans should not be seen or known about in our public schools, that businesses should be allowed to refuse service to them, that their loved ones should be deported, that they should be denied access to our legal system, that they should be able to be fired from their jobs (especially if they are soldiers defending our country), and that they should be denied the dignity of being with their dying loved ones in a hospital. I’m actually awestruck that you find it reprehensible when Christians are treated in such a demeaning way in a foreign land, but more than willing to subject gays and lesbians to similar torture in their own country. I happen to think the pain caused by the discrimination that gay and lesbian Americans face is equal in magnitude to what this Christian man is facing. You ask of them the same thing that the Iranians are asking of this man, that in order to live in your country, they must denounce an integral part of themselves. How many gay Americans are forced to live in secrecy because if the wrong person were to find out who they are, they will be murdered? Maybe instead of being self-righteous and condemning them, you could think about the pain and suffering that you are causing them by your actions. Consider the couple that is being torn apart and deported because they can’t get married. Consider the soldier that has had his life’s dreams dashed because he said “he” instead of “she” by accident, consider the person that was separated from the one that they loved while they were dying. Think of the compassion that Jesus would have shown them and ask yourself why you are doing the exact opposite. Think of the Iranian Christian and ask yourself why you are the oppressor in your own country. Think of the 122 gay and lesbians that were killed in America last year and ask yourself if what you write on these pages contributed to their deaths and if they were scared when they were being murdered because of it.

  4. tz1 says:

    Just a reminder – over 4000 innocent unborn children will be murdered today.

    These have all been effectively given the death penalty without any judicial review or appeal.

    Before you point the finger there, you ought not “pooh pooh” the fact that our country is drenched in the blood of 40 million innocents – what would be 10 percent of our population.

    There might be those in Iran who object to the handful of barbaric acts there but fail to act for threat of the government.

    But basically everyone here sits and wrings their hands and had for a generation while the slaughter goes on unabated.

    With the bloody plank here, why are you worried about the spec there?

    1. Lucy says:

      tz1, the discussion was about the rights of gay people and not about abortion. To mix the two as you have does not do justice to either. One discussion point at a time if you don’t mind.

      1. Tom Crowe says:

        Lucy— That may be the funniest thing you’ve posted. One discussion point at a time? With the way you bring other things in I’m surprised you weren’t knocked over by the irony. Cheers!

        1. Lucy says:

          Tom, you’re on a roll. Keep it going.

  5. Sammie says:

    Gay and lesbian Americans have more personal freedoms in Canada and Mexico than they do in the United States. They are the victims of more hate crimes than virtually any other minority despite the fact that they constitute about 2% of the population. Their loved ones are still being deported from this country. They are still being denied access to their loved ones in hospitals. This site regularly posts demeaning and false statements in order to incite animosity against gays and lesbians (blaming them for polygamist marriage comes to mind). You continually advocate for your religious beliefs to be forced on others by the rule of American law. You want gays and lesbians to live in this country the way christians must live in Iran, pretending they are someone they aren’t, sneaking around under cover of night, worried about being discovered, out of sight from your children so they aren’t exposed to the fact that gay people exist. The “America” that you advocate on these pages is barely more free than Iran. Stop claiming to respect freedom while you simultaneously work to eliminate the freedoms of others. It’s dishonest and hypocritical.

    1. Tom Crowe says:

      Sammie, you do recognize that you are an example of my point: no one is advocating for execution of anyone. You realize that gays *are* in fact executed in Iran for being gay? Ahmadinejad actually claims that there are no homosexuals in Iran. Please. Of course there are. But any who are identified and arrested are executed. No one is calling for that here. You realize that, don’t you? I hope you do.

      1. petersen says:

        Tom: I just posted a longer comment, but I hope you realize that 122 Americans were executed in this country in 2010 because they were gay, not at the hands of government, but at the hands of their fellow Americans. The anti-gay rhetoric of this site (blaming gays for polygamist marriage is a great example) certainly contributes to the violence that occurs against gay people. Did you read the article you linked to? The way Christians are treated in Iran is identical to the ways that gays and lesbians are treated in the majority of this country. I’d hope that you would be a big enough person to admit the similarities.

        1. Greg Smith says:

          Dear Petersen ~ Homophobic violence, up to and including homicide is a national tragedy. However, unlike in Iran or Uganda American law enforcement responds to these murders. Also, in large jurisdictions, government engages in prevention and education programs, often in cooperation with the LGBT community. Yes, many of our misguided Protestant fundementalist brothers and sisters contribute to the problem and yes, our own Catholic church could and should speak out more against homopobia. However, clearly American attitudes are changing for the better.
          Finally, give Crowe his due. Conservative Catholic sites often wallow in doom and gloom. His upbeat afirmation of American values should be welcomed! ~ Pax vobiscum to you and the Toms (all of them :-) Greg

          1. Pamela says:

            I’m not sure which is worse, Iran killing gays and lesbians (and the Carholic Church standing in the UN and supporting their right to do so), or Catholycs that see the injustice coming from our church, and saying “oh well, it could be worse”. We are called to love and respect all of God’s children. We have failed.

          2. davide says:

            @Pamela The Catholic Church aka Holy See does NOT advocate the killing of gay persons at the UN; this is a bold face lie. A disgusting lie. By your words you have proven to me without any reasonable doubt you are a lesbian (more than likely closeted) and heavily involved in homosexual advocacy. Tell me I am wrong? This should be a knee slapper. One question remains are you even Catholic? Or for the matter a Christian? I am betting you are an atheist. If anyone has “failed” it is you. Fail to speak the truth. Sad. I am not buying your bit. What is worst of all you fail to mention one word the Catholic Church is doing to help gays, especially those infected with the AIDS virus. There are literally hundreds of Catholic clinics throughout the world treating gays and others who are infected with disease. In Africa 40 percent of all AIDS clinics are operated by Catholics. Catholics throughout the world donate their time and millions of dollars each year in the treatment and prevention of AIDs and most of the victims are gay. But yet you fail to utter one single world. Pamela, if you are going to lie at least get your facts straight than lie about it. Wow you made me mad now I need a beer and its still in the AM.

          3. Tom Crowe says:

            Pamela— Your comment belies a remarkable ignorance of the U.N. and the Church’s involvement therein.

        2. Davide says:

          @ peterson you claim 122 gays have been “executed”. You have no way of proving this. In fact is this number not much closer to a dozen or so? Would this not be a fair assessment? Is it also not true more gays are killed by their own hand (suicide and drug abuse) and promiscuity (HIV/AIDS)? In fact isn’t these deaths staggering? Is it not true STD’S in the gay community is rampant, especially among active gay men? Is it not true homosexual advocacy is intolerant of straights and are in fact full narcissistic heterophobes? Gay advocacy wants gays to play the part of the victim, is this not true? But true victim hood is by the immoral actions of the active homosexual..is this not true? Of course these things are true and now you know the truth. Give up the gay victim status no one is buying it. Finally and most importantly is it not true that homosexuals use violent, harassment, bigotry, hate filled speech far greater in number than Christians use against gays? Again this is true. Homosexual advocacy is nothing short of tyranny, full of tyrants.

          1. Pamela says:

            Oh great, the “Matthew Shephard’s death was a hoax” argument from Davide. Actually there is concrete proof, the FBI keeps data on crimes that have been PROVEN in a court of law to have been motivated by hate. It is indeed sad that our society drives so many gay and lesbians to committ suicide through bullying and hate. We should stand up against such tactics Davide, not help contribute to it.

          2. Tom Crowe says:

            Pamela— Did the state execute Matthew Shephard? Then what’s the point of bringing him up? My post was about the state’s activities. See my comments to Petersen and Jeremy for more along this line.

      2. Pamela says:

        Seriously Tom? We can do whatever we like to gay people – deny them equal access to our laws, beat them up on the street, call them “evil”, “disordered”, or a “gathering storm”, but at least we aren’t stringing them up from the gallows (anymore), so they should be thankful? Do you have any humanity whatsoever? I am honestly appalled.

        1. Tom Crowe says:

          Pamela… (Or should I just call you “honestly appalled” from here on out? It seems to fit your typical mood perfectly, and you identified as it, so I think it’s a legit possibility.) Anyhow… You are honestly appalled, and I am honestly bemused by your mock horror born of a marvelous string of massively missing the point while, in the process, being an example of what I’m talking about in the post. Cheers!

          1. Peter Gilley says:

            Awesome Tom. It looks like your hateful “at least the government isn’t executing the gays anymore” comments have earned you a mention on other websites and a black eye on the university. http://be4marriage.com/the-people/tom-crowe. Keep up the great work.

          2. Tom Crowe says:

            Interesting, Peter… because i never said that. And those who say I did have an ulterior motive to distort and hate those who have the audacity to disagree with them. Amazing how quick some people are to try to shout down rather than intelligently argue with those with whom they disagree. I hate no one. Cheers.

    2. Paul says:

      AMEN Sammie.

    3. Whitney says:

      I don’t see what the problem is here, Sammie.

  6. Matt B says:

    Yet.

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